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 rag rules defined

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Ymir
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PostSubject: rag rules defined   Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:45 pm

not all of the rules but clears up any questions on some things


here is the actual link
http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=18240.0



Dagorhirim,
As head weapons checker the responsibility for weapon safety and weapon standards are the job at hand. Over the last few years weapons construction and new technology has created niche weaponry on the field that does not have its own rule set. The head weapons checker is forced to use the current MOA (Approved by RWC June 2009 and updated December 2009) in order to address these weapons fairly.
The rules below affect: swords, clubs, maces and axes. These rules are what a weapon checker has to work with to be safe and fair to each participant. Some weapons that are not addressed in the MOA are, and not limited to clubs, maces and axes.
This is to make sure that the weapons checking guidelines are clear and concise within a reasonable timeframe before Ragnarok.
4.1.2 - Weapons Checkers and Heralds have the final say in determining how to classify a weapon, e.g., whether a weapon with a circular cross-section is a "sword" or a "club." (This rule is basis for checking all non-listed blue weapons.)


4.1.11 - Restrictions:
4.1.11.1 - The pommel of a weapon must be padded to prevent injury in the event of an accidental "hit" and must not easily go through a 2 inch-diameter hole.
4.1.11.2 - All bladed weapons must conform to the following: hide
4.1.11.2.1 - Minimum dimensions of 1.25 inch by 3 inches.
4.1.11.2.2 - Minimum dimensions for single edged bladed weapons are 1.25 by 2.5 inches
4.1.11.2.3 - Blue weapons must weigh a minimum of 12 ounces.
4.2.1 - Blue weapons are edged (hacking) or mass (smashing) melee weapons intended primarily for one-handed use.
4.2.2 - Blue swords must have a minimum blade length of 12 inches from above the handgrip to the tip and a maximum total length less than 48 inches.

Most understand how these rules applies to swords, but how do these rules affect the club, mace and ax.



Clubs:

Because of rule 4.1.11.2.1 the club needs to be a minimum of 3” across in all directions. Where the sword has defined edges for striking, the club striking surface is on all sides.

Rule 4.2.2 requires 12” inches of striking surface and the handgrip should not exceed 1/3 of the total length of the weapon. Include adequate courtesy padding as necessary. Between the two rules above this means a club needs a 3” cross-section for the top 12” of the weapon.

Maces:

Follow the same rules as the club above. To make the weapon look more like a mace enlarge the top of the weapon, be creative.

Ax:

The Ax has defined edges and flats. Single Edge axes use rule 4.1.11.2.2. This means that along the flat it needs to measure a minimum of 2.5”, and that it must have tape along the back; or non-striking side of the blade. It must also resemble the shape of an Ax. The ax blade must conform to the standard 1.25” min width. Again, the handle cannot extend past 1/3 the total length of the weapon, and adequate courtesy padding should be added wherever necessary. Two sided axes need to use the 3-inch rule 4.1.11.2.1 for the first 12 inches or to handgrip. Blades may extend past the 3” as desired.

Plastidip:

Plastidip on weapons is a safety and rules concern that has come up in the recent year. This technology is new and looks cool, but it is untried in the long haul. Using rule:
4.1.4 - All weapons must have cloth covering over all striking surfaces. This striking surface rule is the key to determining where PD will be permitted. Basically any place one would put tape instead of cloth should be acceptable i.e. Flats, quillions, incidental padding, and pommels.

Shields, because of their nature on the battle field as a striking non-wounding piece of equipment fall under the 4.1.4 rule. Shields need to be covered in cloth not plastic dip.







Arrows:

Tape should not be used to wrap carbon, fiberglass or aluminum arrow shafts, the rule ( 4.5.3.15.7 - All wooden arrows must have their shafts wrapped in tape.) applies only to wooden arrows Aluminum and fiberglass arrows cannot be taped because the tape will hide damage or breaks in the shaft. There have been arrows shot that break in half or have the head fall off in flight. The shake test archers use to check for damaged arrows does not catch all broken arrows that are taped. Because of this only wooden arrows are to be taped.

Shields:
4.1.11.5 - No weapons other than aluminum-shafted arrows may have metal cores.
The above rule applies to shields due to the offensive ability of the shield and using a “reasonable person” standard. We do strike, bash and punch with shields, 4.8.1 - A shield bash means using a shield to strike an opponent starting from a distance more than two steps away. 4.8.2 - A shield check means using a shield to strike an opponent starting from a distance two steps away or closer. This means that solid metal cores in shields are disallowed.
If a metal-cored shield is not made properly, when it fails, serious damage could be done to a participant.
To address the metal detectors issue, if they are used at Rag it would be in this manner:
spot checks by trained staff.

How will a weapon be checked? Starting the wand just above the handle, handgrip, quillions and moving toward the top of the weapon at an even pace. In the case where people use a penny or something similar at the top of their core, the wand will emit a short beep. This short beep is passable. If, during the pass, a long beep registers for many inches, it is cause for failure. Metal used in the hand grip and pommel for weighting purposes is allowed.

Back in the day scales were not used and now they are. It has become a weapons check standard. Making sure that your opponent has no metal in the “business end” of his weapon should also be a standard. This standard needs also to apply to shields.

Mods please sticky and lock this post.

Thank you,

Laithe
Rag Head Weapons Checker
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PostSubject: Re: rag rules defined   Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:47 pm

marty's shield is now illegal Sad
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PostSubject: Re: rag rules defined   Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:49 pm

remember these rules apply mostly for official events. as for our chapter, we give a little more leeway.

example: rules state no metal cores.
when it comes to marty's shield..... i have no issue with him using it. ive been hit head on with it and didnt feel anything. as far as Rag goes, it would be illegal.
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PostSubject: Re: rag rules defined   Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:41 am

I feel the need to put this in a bit more context. In the months preceding Ragnarok 2010, there was a lot of heated debate over how the rules applied to these various weapons. Many of which I participated in. What is in this post is NOT dagorhir law. This man was chosen to be head weapons checker at Rag 2010, and wanted to make clear HIS interpretations of the rules so all weapons checkers working under him that year would be on the same page. This interpretation was for Rag 2010 alone.
I had personally argued with him about the validity of metal cored shields several weeks prior to him making this post. According to him, the rules were very clear on metal cored shields being illegal. This was because:
4.8.1 - A shield bash means using a shield to strike an opponent starting from a distance more than two steps away.
4.8.2 - A shield check means using a shield to strike an opponent starting from a distance two steps away or closer.
He said that because you "strike" an apponent with it, it has a "striking surface." And because it has a "striking surface," it must be a weapon. It therefore cannot have a metal core. He's reading was too much into their word choice. If you look at older copies of the Manual of Arms, all those rules were already in existance back when the manual of arms used to contain this paragraph:
"A light, durable shield can be made from an aluminum saucer sled. Punch holes in it and string some rope through to form an arm strap and hand grip. Put some foam on to pad your arm. Tape or glue closed cell foam around the rim of the sled. From a large sheet on foam, cut out a piece of foam which has a diameter ten inches larger than the sled so you can fold the foam over the edge of the sled."

If the "no weapon may have a metal core" rule was already in place, and they were still using aluminum saucer sleds as a good example of a shield core, that rule clearly wasnt meant to include shields. And the majority of the dag community agreed with me. But he was the one selected to be head weapons checker that Ragnarok that year, so thats how they were checked.
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PostSubject: Re: rag rules defined   Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:28 am

And as far as injury if the shield fails, If given the choice of taking the rolled edge of an aluminum baking sheet to the face or the edge of a 3/8 sheet of plywood to the face, I'll take the baking sheet every time.

-Also if we follow his interpretation, most all our wooden shields would be illegal too;
4.1.11.9 - Any weapon with a wooden core must have all wood covered with tape.

One of the biggest uproars was with axes. He required all axe blades to be a minimum of 12" long. MOST axes in dagorhir to not meet this requirement.

I agree with him that plasti-dip shield faces should be disallowed, but like all his proclamations, he talks like theres zero descrepency that the rules support his position. There is no rule addressing shield coverings. There used to be, but for whatever reason, they took it out a decade (ish) ago. After explaining about padding the face and edges of a shield, they said to cover the foam in canvas. People continued to cover their shields in cloth, and it became sort of an unofficial rule. One which probably should be reinstated as an official rule, but as of yet has not.
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PostSubject: Re: rag rules defined   Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:40 am

I knew this too. They voted on a bunch of rule changes, they. Just. Haven't released an official MOA. Baradun also informed me of the rule changes. Just no one has official documentation yet.
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